Skyrim

More commenting options for mod authors

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An extremely underused feature on the Nexus file pages is the “Discussions” tab, which allows authors and users (provided the author allows it) to create different threads for different parts of conversation to do with the file. When you have a large mod that gets hundreds of new messages a day it can often be difficult to keep up with what’s going on within your single comment topic. Bug reports, feedback, suggestions, troubleshooting and general chit-chat get all mixed up in a big soup of one large mega thread where anything and everything is spoken about and large amounts of cross-talking takes place. With discussions you can create separate threads for these issues and then, hopefully, people will use the thread most relevant to what they want to talk about on your file.

I hope the new reply mechanics are helping you to keep up with the amount of cross-talking going on, but discussions are also there for mod authors to make use of that help to segregate their chats into more concise areas. Unfortunately because using the single comment topic is so ingrained in what people do on the Nexus sites a very large proportion of people completely ignore the discussions area, or worse, don’t know about it.

I know lots of mod authors like having a single comment topic where everything is placed and nothing has changed for you folks. In fact if you don’t care about discussions you can stop reading now and get on with your merry business. But what we have done is provided some options when you make your file page for how you would like your comments to be setup. You can now choose to have a comment topic and no discussions area, a comment topic and a discussion area, just a discussions area and no comment topic, or no comments at all. How is this different you ask? Well before we didn’t let you have a discussion area without a comment topic as well; so you couldn’t force your users to use your discussion area and split your discussions up into more manageable chunks. The problem was then that everyone would just talk in the single comment topic and ignore the discussions. By turning off the single comment topic you can force people to use the discussions instead if you so wish.

You can still choose whether you want to let users make their own topics or you can choose to setup your own topics and not allow others to make one, so you can control the flow of what people talk about more easily. You can also lock, sticky and delete any of your threads, providing you with even more control. Why is this helpful? Well, you can setup your threads so you have a “Bug Reports”, “Troubleshooting” and “Feedback” section and then direct people to the correct thread for the topic being discussed.

If you want to remove your comment topic and make use of your discussion area on a mod you’ve already uploaded you’ll find a new setting in your file attributes page that lets you turn off your comment topic, essentially providing you with the same functionality.

While we were hoping we could give each mod its own private forum category on the Nexus forums after further investigation and research we worked out we couldn’t do this as past around 5,000 forum categories things kind of die, and with over 90,000 files hosted on the sites now it won’t be possible to achieve.

We’ll be taking a short break for easter now (happy easter) and then we’ll get back into the swing of things with a design update to the category and search result pages, NMM profiling and a move to our new database server cluster. Fingers crossed.

47 comments

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  1. re32767
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    Years ago I couldn't speak English, when I came to Nexus, I always downloaded mods without checking comment section. (I even ignored comment and discussion sections.) What I noticed at most were endorsements and downloads in each mod page.
    Nexus in my first impression was a very awesome place like a heaven because you could always download tons of free masterpieces, most mod authors were willing to give you their permission to modify even upload their works, and most people looked nice. In addition, if you decided to become a mod author, you would get an absolute reverence from almost ALL people in the community (even if what you made was not technically profund, even if your mod was not for them), after all all you offered were FREE.
    Since I uploaded some mods and then attracted those who considered themselves as "elder modders" "elder players" to directed me the right and wrong and also many weird people who just left a short and rage scolding, I started to think this site a place gathered tons of dumb asses who would force many enthusiastic mod authors away. A very basic question in my mind: Have you paid? What makes you criticize me? Because you're a mod author, too?
    We all notice that recently there are a lot of new sites like Patreon (despite I don't like its paid feature) and indeed more and more people set these sites as their new base. Let's see who the next winner is.
  2. NexBeth
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    Why do folks trying out a mod not use the BUGs tab to let the author know about problems encountered instead of throwing everything at the single Posts tab??? I wish modders would be able to move those comments over to Bugs and out of Posts. I suppose using Discussions, you can set up Comments and Troubleshooting discussions and try to separate things out. However, to get people used to that, modders would probably have to not open up the Posts tab at all.

    Myself I always check out Posts before installing a new mod. That is where the problems show up to let me know if I want to use the mod. However, from the modders POV, it would be preferable just to have a comments section where general discussion of the mod could occur rather than bogging down a single topic with problems that may or may not be real. For extremely popular mods, must be a modder's nightmare to keep up with things showing up in one topic area.
  3. bben46
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    How about the scenario where a modder with an overblown ego just deletes every negative comment without doing anything about a legitimate gripe? Including the constructive comments telling how, or offering help in fixing the problems?
    1. vipermkii
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      It works both ways pal. What about all of those users who can't find their data folder to save their life? That then go on to spam comment sections with message about mods being broken? You know, that horde of people who,even with NMM, manage to mess up a simple texture install and can't figure out why their character is "invisible"?

      I at least have the courtesy to send mod authors a p.m. when I think that there is a error instead of spamming their comment section with messages that drive away potential downloads.

      What if a modder abuses the ability to moderate the comment section of THEIR mod? What about it? Why should anyone care if they do? I certainly don't go diving into the comment section of every mod I try before I try it. I download it, test it out and if something is broken then I check the mod's comment section for an answer. If the problem can't be solved then I delete the mod and I don't endorse it.

      I been downloading mods from Nexus for a long time now and I know I have downloaded plenty of mods that have had a bunch of comments crying that it's broken etc., guess what? I installed it properly and it worked fine (I'm talking about way before NMM days). Had I gone by the comments I would have never taken a chance on it.

      This is something that has bothered me about Nexus for a long time and is one of the reasons that I have held off on making mods for a long time and is something that I would like to see changed. Maybe I'm the lone voice here, I dunno. However, since the topic came up, I'm taking the opportunity to make my point even if it falls on deaf ears.
    2. Eiries
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      viper: You may a reasonable, sound individual, but not everyone is, and that goes for modders too. There are too many people with their heads up their asses to trust them moderating their own comment section. I've seen more than a few examples of an uploader becoming so incomprehensibly furious at commenters who were just trying to be helpful and point out problems.

      Like bben stated, it could become horribly inconvenient if an aggravated mod uploader decides to delete any comment pertaining to a legitimate issue because he doesn't feel like fixing it, or because he doesn't believe it's his mod's fault (but it is.)

      In the case of incompetent commenters bringing up faults of their own, the uploader/other users are free to point them to mod installation tutorials, or to ignore them.

      In closing no, I do not feel like mod authors should be able to freely delete comments as they wish.
    3. JimboUK
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      I always check the comments before downloading, I want to know about potential bugs and issues. I don't want my game buggered up because an author has decided to hide bug reports and potential serious conflicts, if a lot of users are all reporting the same thing then chances are there's a problem, a problem I'd like to know about before installing. Yes there are plenty of users who have to phone tech support for instructions on how to turn their PC on but I've also come across a few mod authors with a god complex, they think they're infallible and so it must be the end users fault, no matter how many of those end users all have the same problem.

      The system in use at the moment is an ideal balance, authors can remove posts but as a safeguard those removed posts are checked by a member of staff.
    4. gervil
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      Quote by vipermkii: "I certainly don't go diving into the comment section of every mod I try before I try it"

      ^ Now that is some seriously BAD advice if I ever heard one. I now make it a rule to check the comments section EVERYTIME before I think of installing a mod.

      Having been burned once by not doing that, I have learned my lesson. I once installed a mod which had many comments about it breaking after a few weeks after installation, and then corrupting the save game and being unable to uninstall it. I didn't bother reading the comments section when I installed it and I now regret it, especially when many users had reported the same issue over and over again.

      If you think I'm making this up, the mod in question was "Mark Books as Read", and the author ended up ignoring pleas for help and then disabled the mod page entirely, leaving users afflicted with the problem completely out of luck. If you want to know how this horror story happened, you can still read the comments here:

      http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/735543-mark-books-as-read/page-7

      As for "incapable" people not being able to install mods correctly, that's even a more important reason why leaving these comment intact is crucial. I've seen other commentators jump in to help them out if the issue is a straightforward one, and the instructions left behind also help other "incapable" people who may have similar difficulties.
    5. scottmack
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      I dont't know. I kind of like the idea of becoming a personal dictator for all my mods and deleting anything bad everyone says, so that I may be lifted onto an everlasting pedestal as I rule the lands of the comments section with an iron fist.
  4. iTzChRiS
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    Well, his voice was used in Skyrim too... not a big surprise.
  5. Dark0ne
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    Clicking the red [x] next to the topic title deletes the comment topic.
    1. askfor
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      Thanks. But poster can't delete his/her own message. I am not talking about the topis/thread, but single post. That is inconvenient. So, I deleted the mod and uploaded it as new with classic style comments.

      We had a conversation earlier about allowing person who endorsed a mod to recommend some more, similar. Like IMDB. You said something about background coding. I happen to be software developer myself, if you are interested, I can PM you how I think it might be implemented.
  6. askfor
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    For some reason discussion posts can not be deleted, even by people who made them. On the other hand, comments can be deleted. Why the difference ?

    I'd like to re enable comments for my mod, because of the problem with deleting, but there seems to be no way to do it.
  7. RGMage2
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    In response to post #7770287. #7770969 is also a reply to the same post.
     

    snip -

    A person can take one look at a mod page and tell if the modder is a serious and "professional" modder based on the quality of their description page, screenshots and the content of their comment section. - snip

    I don't think that's necessarily true.  A person might think that but it doesn't make it so.   There are some talented authors around here who who choose to resist making those "professional" type descriptions based on their belief that it is the modding that counts and not the sales job with all the hype.  Also not all modders are English speakers, and those who lack the ability to express themselves in our language tend to put forward a minimalist description and hope that people will understand them - they have a mod they want to share and it just might be the best mod ever made if only people are willing to take a look at it.
     
    My preference with the comments is to have one thread with everything in it, but that's because I know I'm not going to get a huge number of comments and it's easier for me to manage one thread.  If someone has a very popular mod that's getting hundreds and hundreds of comments then I can see how splitting it into various discussions would be desirable.  What ever is best for the author is what I say, and with that in mind newest first makes the most sense.
     
    Modders deleting comments?  That argument is never going to go away, but for me personally I have no need to exorcise that kind of power.  I like the idea of the comment thread being exactly that, a comment thread.  Having an open forum where people can exchange ideas and opinions is something we should value highly, and not just try to stomp on everyone who says something we don't like.
     
    Overall I like the changes that have been made, though I do find that when you have some people posting directly in the comments and other people posting form the forum thread and the two are mixed together and they display somewhat differently it can give it a bit of a dysfunctional look, especially on the forum side.
     
    All things considered, it's thumbs up.       
  8. Dark0ne
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    Above all it's about a simple matter of retaining some semblance of order and continuity in what people are and aren't allowed to talk about in file comments. We've set guidelines and rules to this end. If we allow mod authors to moderate their files however they see fit then these guidelines and rules amount for very little. Some mod authors will moderate with an iron-fist making different demands of people commenting than other more liberal mod authors who will allow for a lot more within their file comments.
     
    You can try and argue services like YouTube, Steam Workshop et al provide moderating functionality to authors because they trust and want the authors to have the final say. More cynically I think they provide this functionality so they aren't tasked with moderating things themselves, so the work load is placed on the author rather than their staff to make it easier for them. Either way, it works for them. But I want this community to be moderated to community standards I have set because that's how I want this community (the Nexus community) to be shaped. You can't shape how you want a community to interact and talk to each other if different mod authors are allowing different levels of interaction.
     
    Right now we're keeping up with moderation just fine. We've brought in functionality in the past 6 months to give mod authors more control over removing unwanted comments instantly, without having to wait for moderator approval. That's as far as we're taking things for the time being. But so long as we can keep up with it all we won't be providing mod authors complete moderation control over their comments. Because, simply put, I don't want to.
  9. vipermkii
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    Why don't you guys just give modders the ability to delete comments from the comment section. I have seen mods where there is a blitz of just bad, non-constructive comments that serve no other purpose than to drive away potential users.

    We take the time to make the mod and set up the page for it but we can't be trusted to moderate our own comment section? At least give us an ability to clear the comment section, I have at least one mod where I have had to disable the comment section completely because of a blitz of bad comments.

    I rely on the comment section for feedback but these were comments that just trashed talked the mod and offered no suggestions on how to improve it. Then there are the comments that try to bully modders into doing something that go something like this: "If it had -blank- I would download it and endorse it", like this somehow entices modders to work their balls off to satisfy one person.

    The comment section is so simple and easy to use, does it make more sense to add a few moderation options to it?

    Also +1 to oldest post first format! It would be a big help to people trying to troubleshoot a mod.
    1. Ichibu
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      because people would just delete any negative comments, constructive or not, so that their mod looks perfect
      then other users come and download it after checking the comments, to find its full of bugs, and would have known that if comment deletion wasnt enabled for mod authors...
    2. vipermkii
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      You just made my point that mods are looked over because of negative comments, many of which are unjustified.

      Also consider this:

      A user posts a comment about a legitimate error with a mod. The author repairs the mod yet the comment that it is broken remains. There is no guarantee that people who read the negative comment will also read the comment that the mod was fixed.

      Furthermore, so what if people abuse the ability to delete comments. A person can take one look at a mod page and tell if the modder is a serious and "professional" modder based on the quality of their description page, screenshots and the content of their comment section. I think lacking the ability to moderate the comment section is an infringement on mod authorship.
    3. Papajack55
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      I think with all due respect that that moderator whomever it may be, once the mod is repaired, reset, or re-finished, can then let the comments with the 'constructive remarks know that it has been redone. Also let the rest of the downloaders know there's an update, not just let it go. Unless of course you have an automatic updater in your mod manager.
  10. davidagladish
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    What-if's aside, as a mod author who wants to moderate his comments fairly, I would just like the option to move a comment to a specific forum/discussion thread on my mod page. It would be nice to be trusted enough to decide under what category they belong, rather than edit or remove them.

    If I could have it my way, after a comment is posted in the main comment thread I would have the option to move it to "Bug Reports", "Troubleshooting", or "Feedback with Spoilers." If I do nothing, it just stays in the main thread. Those three things are really the only things I can think of that I would ever want to move off the main comments, aside from blatantly inappropriate comments. Then the potential mod downloader can make the call as to which thread(s) they want to read.
    1. vipermkii
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      +1

      I thought I might be alone on this but then I found a 30 page thread on the forum about this very issue.